Author Topic: What? (For Pokemon fans only)  (Read 4638 times)

LoA

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What? (For Pokemon fans only)
« on: July 17, 2016, 04:42:03 AM »
What?


.................................................................

WHAT..........

WHAAAAT?!!!!

Okay I've known about the whole "Humans used to marry pokemon thing" for a while, but now that I honestly think about it, I have so many weird questions. Not about anything super gross... Just questions. And I already watched the game theory episode about humans being pokemon.

What caused humans to diverge from the typical pokemon biological makeup?
Why are we so radically different from a normal pokemon who has super powers?
I know that there are some humans who display psychic powers, but why don't all humans have psychic powers when we have the superior mental ability?
Why don't Alakazams sit on top of the food chain? They have way superior brains than ours.
Who is our missing link ancestor?
Did they have an evolutionary chain?
Were they psychic types? Normal types, Fairy types?
Who are our closest living relatives? Gardevoirs, abras, machops?
Could we in theory still cross breed with pokemon, or are we too genetically distant from them now?
Plenty of pokemon display human-like intelligence. Why are they treated like animals?

I mean when you think about it would answer the question as to why some people have off-colored hair, such as blue, green, purple, etc. They're probably closer to their pokemon ancestors than most other people.
« Last Edit: July 17, 2016, 04:43:50 AM by LoA »

Steerpike

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Re: What? (For Pokemon fans only)
« Reply #1 on: July 17, 2016, 01:11:49 PM »
I get a very strong folkloric feel here, similar to stories about people marrying mythical creatures like the Scandinavian huldra or the Scottish finfolk or selkie ("seal-wife"). These sorts of marriages are extremely common in Japanese folklore - they're a subgenre called irui konin tan (sometimes translated as "tales of heterotype marriage"). In many of these stories the creatures in question can transform into human beings. The idea that we were all the same evokes a period of fairytale amorphousness where people could shapechange into Pokemon or vice versa.

I don't think using real-world biology makes much sense here since Pokemon very obviously don't use real-world biology. I don't think the Pokeverse uses Darwin's rules...

LoA

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Re: What? (For Pokemon fans only)
« Reply #2 on: July 17, 2016, 02:42:13 PM »
Quote from: Steerpike
I get a very strong folkloric feel here, similar to stories about people marrying mythical creatures like the Scandinavian huldra or the Scottish finfolk or selkie ("seal-wife"). These sorts of marriages are extremely common in Japanese folklore - they're a subgenre called irui konin tan (sometimes translated as "tales of heterotype marriage"). In many of these stories the creatures in question can transform into human beings. The idea that we were all the same evokes a period of fairytale amorphousness where people could shapechange into Pokemon or vice versa.

I don't think using real-world biology makes much sense here since Pokemon very obviously don't use real-world biology. I don't think the Pokeverse uses Darwin's rules...

One theory I read said that Pokemon are basically living energy which is why Pokeballs can convert them into a different form of energy and store them. Basically Pokemon are elementals and/or spirit creatures. That makes a ton of sense, and honestly, if we're looking at it from a fantasy perspective, elementals and spirits are always reproducing with humans. If humans were once "Pokemon" though why don't we produce eggs, like all of the other pokemon? Even the Mammalian pokemon lay eggs.

Rhamnousia

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Re: What? (For Pokemon fans only)
« Reply #3 on: July 17, 2016, 04:05:41 PM »
I'm going to be incredibly blunt here so bear with me. There's basically two dimensions to the taboo of bestiality. The first is that it's bad to sleep with a nonsapient creature, which is a good and ethical standard. The second is that it's bad to sleep with a creature with nonhuman anatomy, a standard which we see violated all the time across all manner of genres and time periods. Pokemon are for the most part (there might be exceptions I don't know about) depicted as sapient and they're not treated of as animals in the conventional sense: the product approval manual even mandated that that no animal-based products ever be depicted, making everyone essentially vegan. The Japanese Pokemon website even poked fun at some humans might treat the more anthropomorphic species, so I'm leaning towards the interpretation that even if we're a completely separate species, there's no broad cultural taboo against the idea of marrying certain kinds of pokemon.

Steerpike

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Re: What? (For Pokemon fans only)
« Reply #4 on: July 17, 2016, 05:05:44 PM »
Quote from: LoA
If humans were once "Pokemon" though why don't we produce eggs, like all of the other pokemon? Even the Mammalian pokemon lay eggs.

Because humans aren't Pokemon now.

There was no difference between humans and Pokemon during some primordial, mythological age ("long ago"). But now, in the present, human beings and Pokemon are fundamentally different sorts of being. Because the Pokeverse clearly doesn't run using real-world biology even a little bit, I think searching for any kind of "genetic" explanation here doesn't make much sense. Notice that the text doesn't say that people used to be Pokemon - it says that long ago "people and Pokémon were the same." It's invoking a kind of mythic past, more like the Australian Dreamtime, the Christian Garden of Eden, or the Japanese Age of the Gods than real-world prehistory.

EDIT: It's important to note the source here: "Sinnoh Folk Story 3." These are part of the Sinnoh myth cycle which frequently refers to a mythological time when Pokemon and humans relate to one another along very different terms, or are the same thing, or can turn into one another.

LoA

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Re: What? (For Pokemon fans only)
« Reply #5 on: July 17, 2016, 07:00:41 PM »
Quote from: Steerpike
Quote from: LoA
If humans were once "Pokemon" though why don't we produce eggs, like all of the other pokemon? Even the Mammalian pokemon lay eggs.

Because humans aren't Pokemon now.

There was no difference between humans and Pokemon during some primordial, mythological age ("long ago"). But now, in the present, human beings and Pokemon are fundamentally different sorts of being. Because the Pokeverse clearly doesn't run using real-world biology even a little bit, I think searching for any kind of "genetic" explanation here doesn't make much sense. Notice that the text doesn't say that people used to be Pokemon - it says that long ago "people and Pokémon were the same." It's invoking a kind of mythic past, more like the Australian Dreamtime, the Christian Garden of Eden, or the Japanese Age of the Gods than real-world prehistory.

EDIT: It's important to note the source here: "Sinnoh Folk Story 3." These are part of the Sinnoh myth cycle which frequently refers to a mythological time when Pokemon and humans relate to one another along very different terms, or are the same thing, or can turn into one another.

Alright I finally get the picture. Since pokemon don't function on the same genetic level that our world does, does that make them magical?

I think it makes sense to say that pokemon are functioning on a different plane of physics if that makes sense.

This video(Warning: Long but Enlightening) points out how there's tons of alchemy and astrological symbolism in Pokemon.

We know that there are prehistoric pokemon that exist, and can be ressurrected (which makes me wonder why death is even a thing in Pokemon).

If the video above makes sense (and it does to me) pokemon function on a mystic set of rules as opposed to our world which is strictly bound to the laws of physics. The question for me is: did humans come to this world and pokemon already existed, or did humans evolve from pokemon themselves, and this is an alternative earth?

I think I'm jumping off the rails, I just don't know how.

Quote from: Rhamnousia
I'm going to be incredibly blunt here so bear with me. There's basically two dimensions to the taboo of bestiality. The first is that it's bad to sleep with a nonsapient creature, which is a good and ethical standard. The second is that it's bad to sleep with a creature with nonhuman anatomy, a standard which we see violated all the time across all manner of genres and time periods. Pokemon are for the most part (there might be exceptions I don't know about) depicted as sapient and they're not treated of as animals in the conventional sense: the product approval manual even mandated that that no animal-based products ever be depicted, making everyone essentially vegan. The Japanese Pokemon website even poked fun at some humans might treat the more anthropomorphic species, so I'm leaning towards the interpretation that even if we're a completely separate species, there's no broad cultural taboo against the idea of marrying certain kinds of pokemon.

I apologise for missing your post. I guess there's some truth to what you're saying, but I call BS on the whole "Food Chain" thing.

To Quote the Pokedex:

Wurmple (Sapphire/Alpha Sapphire):Wurmple is targeted by Swellow as prey. This Pokémon will try to resist by pointing the spikes on its rear at the attacking predator. It will weaken the foe by leaking poison from the spikes.

Oh and before I forget the Anime, people eat magikarp all the time.

So yeah, there are canon predator/prey relationships.
« Last Edit: July 17, 2016, 07:10:27 PM by LoA »

Rhamnousia

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Re: What? (For Pokemon fans only)
« Reply #6 on: July 17, 2016, 07:46:28 PM »
To be fair, the first instance is them imagining eating one and the second is actually taiyaki, a fish-shaped cake filled with red bean curd.

LoA

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Re: What? (For Pokemon fans only)
« Reply #7 on: July 17, 2016, 08:23:08 PM »
Quote from: Rhamnousia
To be fair, the first instance is them imagining eating one and the second is actually taiyaki, a fish-shaped cake filled with red bean curd.
Alright I'll give it to you.

I'm stuck in my mud about the wurmples and swellows though.

Steerpike

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Re: What? (For Pokemon fans only)
« Reply #8 on: July 17, 2016, 08:34:47 PM »
Quote from: LoA
The question for me is: did humans come to this world and pokemon already existed, or did humans evolve from pokemon themselves, and this is an alternative earth?

I think we're dealing with a completely different cosmology where humans are (a) native to the same world as Pokemon, (b) didn't evolve in the standard Darwinian sense from Pokemon or from apes, and (c) don't really think too much about these questions.

LoA

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Re: What? (For Pokemon fans only)
« Reply #9 on: July 17, 2016, 11:07:11 PM »
Quote from: Steerpike
Quote from: LoA
The question for me is: did humans come to this world and pokemon already existed, or did humans evolve from pokemon themselves, and this is an alternative earth?

I think we're dealing with a completely different cosmology where humans are (a) native to the same world as Pokemon, (b) didn't evolve in the standard Darwinian sense from Pokemon or from apes, and (c) don't really think too much about these questions.
Well that's what the internets for.

Fair enough, I won't press this any further. So how would a vegan ecosystem work anyway?

Steerpike

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Re: What? (For Pokemon fans only)
« Reply #10 on: July 17, 2016, 11:30:53 PM »
Quote from: LoA
So how would a vegan ecosystem work anyway?

Yeah this one stumps me for sure. Presumably the Pokemon aren't vegan, just the humans??

Rhamnousia

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Re: What? (For Pokemon fans only)
« Reply #11 on: July 18, 2016, 12:40:08 AM »
Yeah, I was referring to humans specifically when I made that assessment.


LoA

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Cool Pokemon News
« Reply #13 on: August 01, 2016, 04:59:19 PM »
So I wanted to start a Pokemon Discussion Thread for all of the cool stuff announced for the upcoming Sun and Moon iterations, but then I remembered that I already had a discussion started up, so why not just turn this into a general pokediscussion thread?

So one thing I've been thinking about over the past few months was regional evolution. I have been on a huge pinterest binge, and I have been looking at a ton of pokemon stuff. One thing I noticed was a bunch of fan "subspecies" of pokemon that evolve differently based on environment. These for instance.

Turns out were getting that in Sun and Moon!

This alone assures i'm picking up a copy, but i am genuinely excited for Sun and Moon, and I wasn't for generations 4, 5, and 6. What makes this one so much than the past 3 generations?