Author Topic: CYMRO'S System Proposal  (Read 5012 times)

beejazz

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CYMRO'S System Proposal
« Reply #15 on: October 11, 2006, 11:46:31 PM »
Hell, I was gonna adapt the CBG system for a mech game...

Balance can bite my shiny metal ass.
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beejazz

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« Reply #16 on: October 11, 2006, 11:46:31 PM »
Hell, I was gonna adapt the CBG system for a mech game...

Balance can bite my shiny metal ass.
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I don't believe in it anyway.
What?
England.
Just a conspiracy of cartographers, then?

CYMRO

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« Reply #17 on: October 12, 2006, 10:04:22 AM »
Quote from: beejazz

Hell, I was gonna adapt the CBG system for a mech game...

Balance can bite my shiny metal ass.


Balance is a good thing if you want both.

snakefing

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« Reply #18 on: October 12, 2006, 11:06:28 AM »
Balance is also kind of relative to the kind of game you are playing.

If you are playing a hack'n'slash dungeon crawl, then everyone needs to be able to contribute equally. A wizard whose spells easily defeat the foes unbalances the game.

If you are playing a highly political game, the goal is to out-maneuver your foes. A wizard who can defeat an entire army with his daily allotment of spells has a tactical advantage in the maneuvering, but not necessarily an unbalanced one. It just means he can't be maneuvered by threatening him with armies.

The same core mechanics with different systems in place might be more or less suitable for different play styles.
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CYMRO

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« Reply #19 on: October 12, 2006, 02:37:50 PM »
Quote from: snakefing

Balance is also kind of relative to the kind of game you are playing.





Too true.  The problem with d20 is that magic is out of whack with everything else.



beejazz

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« Reply #20 on: October 12, 2006, 08:58:31 PM »
Quote from: CYMRO

Quote from: beejazz

Hell, I was gonna adapt the CBG system for a mech game...

Balance can bite my shiny metal ass.


Balance is a good thing if you want both.


Both what now? I want CARNAGE! I guess that's two things if you count massive property damage as not carnage. Still...
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I don't believe in it anyway.
What?
England.
Just a conspiracy of cartographers, then?

CYMRO

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« Reply #21 on: October 13, 2006, 01:32:09 AM »
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Both what now? I want CARNAGE! I guess that's two things if you count massive property damage as not carnage. Still...


The ability to dabble in either the murky depths of Arcane Power or the tawdry reaches of Super Science, one set of rules should suffice, since in the end the object is to expend the greatest amount of hurt with the least amount of effort and maximum pizzazz.

CYMRO

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CYMRO'S System Proposal
« Reply #22 on: October 21, 2006, 12:35:00 AM »
Character Basics

CHARACTER ABILITY SCORES:
   STRENGTH is your physical power.  Strength governs encumbrance, and damage modifiers for melee and thrown attacks.
   TOUGHNESS is your ability to endure physically.  Toughness governs wound points, and contributes to vitality points.
   ACCURACY is the ability to focus and strike one€„¢s target.  Accuracy governs all €œto hit€ modifiers, and damage modifiers for ranged, ballistic, and energy weapons.  Accuracy damage from these weapon types is applied to Wound Points rather than Vitality Points.
   REFLEX is your subconscious response to the world around you.  Reflex governs Lucky Saves, and contributes to vitality points.

Ability scores scale from 1 upwards, with 7 being the €œaverage€ human score.


CHARACTER CREATION:
   Every character in the STAR system starts with 33 points to allocate between the four ability scores.  You must put at least one point in every score.
   He also receives a starting package to buy his skills, feats, magic, proficiencies, and etcetera.   This starting package is 15,000 experience points.  


Ability Modifiers


Score   Modifier
1=   -6
2=   -5
3=   -4
4=-3
5=   -2
6=   -1
7=   0
8=   +1
9=   +2
10=   +3
11=   +4
12=   +5
13=   +6
14=   +7
15=   +8
16=   +9
17=   +10
18=   +11
19=   +12
20=   +13
21=   +14
22=   +15
23=   +16
24=   +17
25=   +18
26=   +19
27=   +20
28=   +21
29=   +22
30=   +23
etc. . .   etc€¦
[close]


SPENDING XP

EXPERIENCE POINT COSTS:
ABILITIES
Ability score increase costs 200 x current score in experience points.  So, if you have a 14 Toughness, and want to increase it one point, it will cost you 2800 xp.  Increase any ability score one point at a time, to ensure proper cost progression is allowed for.
   
SKILLS
Skill ranks cost 700 experience points per rank, though certain skills require a feat be taken before any ranks can be purchased in that skill.  

MARTIAL PROFICIENCIES
Weapon and armor group proficiencies cost 2000 experience points each.

FEATS
The cost of feats varies greatly.  Some feats have prerequisites, some feats are upgradeable.

[close]




Basic combat
COMBAT
   
WOUND/VITALITY SYSTEM:

Wound Points equal a character€„¢s Toughness score
Vitality points equal 10 x (Reflex modifier + Toughness modifier).  If the total of both modifiers equals zero or less, it is considered to be 1 for the purpose of calculating vitality points.

WEAPON GROUPS:
A weapon group proficiency gives you a +25% bonus to hit on all attacks made with the weapons in that weapon group.  If you have no proficiency with a weapon group, your base to hit chance is 10%.


MARTIAL FEAT TREE:

WEAPON GROUP FINESSE (MARTIAL)
Cost:  9000 xp.
Prerequisite: Appropriate Weapon Group Specialization.
Benefit:  You gain an additional +10% bonus on all attack rolls you make using the selected weapon group.  You also get an additional +3 to all damage rolls made with weapons in the selected weapons group.  
Special:  You can gain this feat multiple times. Its effects do not stack. Each time you take the feat, it applies to a new weapon group.    


WEAPON GROUP FOCUS (MARTIAL)
Cost:  5000 xp.
Prerequisites:  Appropriate Weapon Group Proficiency.
Benefit:  You gain a +10% bonus on all attack rolls you make using the selected weapon group.  You also get +1 to all damage rolls made with weapons in the selected weapons group.
Special:  You can gain this feat multiple times. Its effects do not stack. Each time you take the feat, it applies to a new weapon group.    
 

WEAPON GROUP MASTERY (MARTIAL)
Cost:  11000 xp.
Prerequisites:  Appropriate Weapon Group Mastery.
Benefit:  You gain an additional +10% bonus on all attack rolls you make using the selected weapon group.  You also get an additional +4 to all damage rolls made with weapons in the selected weapons group.  
Special:  You can gain this feat multiple times. Its effects do not stack. Each time you take the feat, it applies to a new weapon group.    


WEAPON GROUP SPECIALIZATION (MARTIAL)
Cost:  7000 xp.
Prerequisites: Appropriate Weapon Group Focus.
Benefit:  You gain an additional +10% bonus on all attack rolls you make using the selected weapon group.  You also get an additional +2 to all damage rolls made with weapons in the selected weapons group.  
Special:  You can gain this feat multiple times. Its effects do not stack. Each time you take the feat, it applies to a new weapon group.    

[close]


more to come...

beejazz

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« Reply #23 on: October 21, 2006, 12:45:09 AM »
1) How is this remotely simpler?
2) Score modifier chart? WTF?
3) Accuracy? Uh...
4) WTF do skills *do*?
5) Damage values?
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I don't believe in it anyway.
What?
England.
Just a conspiracy of cartographers, then?

CYMRO

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« Reply #24 on: October 21, 2006, 12:51:57 AM »
Quote from: beejazz

1) How is this remotely simpler?
2) Score modifier chart? WTF?
3) Accuracy? Uh...
4) WTF do skills *do*?
5) Damage values?


1)All test subjects find it easier.  So, simpler so far.
2)Pretty fucking self explanatory.  Each score has an associated(increment of 1) modifier.
3) Accuracy.  How well one is able to hit a target.  How else should you measure whether or not you hit?  Strength? "Dexterity"?  Accuracy.  Simple. Intuitive.
4) The same fucking thing they usually do.  
6) Weapon dependent.  

beejazz

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« Reply #25 on: October 21, 2006, 01:00:01 AM »
Quote from: CYMRO

Quote from: beejazz

1) How is this remotely simpler?
2) Score modifier chart? WTF?
3) Accuracy? Uh...
4) WTF do skills *do*?
5) Damage values?


1)All test subjects find it easier.  So, simpler so far.
2)Pretty fucking self explanatory.  Each score has an associated(increment of 1) modifier.
3) Accuracy.  How well one is able to hit a target.  How else should you measure whether or not you hit?  Strength? "Dexterity"?  Accuracy.  Simple. Intuitive.
4) The same fucking thing they usually do.  
6) Weapon dependent.  

1) That's fine and dandy except that you don't really explain it.
2) Yeah... except that it's not nearly as simple as just plain having a static score. Like where my score is three, my modifier is three, and my target number is (surprise) three or under. As opposed to looking on this long-assed chart. You'd be better off with "Score is points spent plus x ." This ability:modifier crap is far from simple.
3) Yes, but accuracy as an ability score? IIRC, everyone but you was against that and preferred a dexterity split.
4) Which would be?
5) Which would be? Would you roll percentile or use other sized dice? wtf you do?
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I don't believe in it anyway.
What?
England.
Just a conspiracy of cartographers, then?

CYMRO

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« Reply #26 on: October 21, 2006, 01:13:53 AM »
Quote
1) That's fine and dandy except that you don't really explain it.

What more at the moment do you need explained?

Quote
2) Yeah... except that it's not nearly as simple as just plain having a static score. Like where my score is three, my modifier is three, and my target number is (surprise) three or under. As opposed to looking on this long-assed chart. You'd be better off with "Score is points spent plus x ." This ability:modifier crap is far from simple.


But your target # is not three, depending on the opponent/situation/whatever.
One only has to consult the chart when you amp your score.  
It is simple enough for a non-gamer to get it first time.

Quote
3) Yes, but accuracy as an ability score? IIRC, everyone but you was against that and preferred a dexterity split.


Yes, accuracy as an ability score.  Because it makes sense.  This is, in effect a split of d20 Dex.  Only it is logical.

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4) Which would be?


Are you being obstuse for a reason?
Are you not familiar with chapter 4 of the PHB?

Quote
5) Which would be? Would you roll percentile or use other sized dice? wtf you do?


WEAPON DEPENDENT. That means each weapon has a different damage die.  You know, like in d20...
In playtesting, I used standard D&D/d20 values.  


beejazz

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« Reply #27 on: October 21, 2006, 01:33:35 AM »
Quote from: CYMRO


Quote
1) That's fine and dandy except that you don't really explain it.

What more at the moment do you need explained?
Quote
2) Yeah... except that it's not nearly as simple as just plain having a static score. Like where my score is three, my modifier is three, and my target number is (surprise) three or under. As opposed to looking on this long-assed chart. You'd be better off with "Score is points spent plus x ." This ability:modifier crap is far from simple.


But your target # is not three, depending on the opponent/situation/whatever.
One only has to consult the chart when you amp your score.  
It is simple enough for a non-gamer to get it first time.[/quote]
Quote
3) Yes, but accuracy as an ability score? IIRC, everyone but you was against that and preferred a dexterity split.


Yes, accuracy as an ability score.  Because it makes sense.  This is, in effect a split of d20 Dex.  Only it is logical.[/quote]
Quote
4) Which would be?


Are you being obstuse for a reason?
Are you not familiar with chapter 4 of the PHB?[/quote]
Quote
5) Which would be? Would you roll percentile or use other sized dice? wtf you do?


WEAPON DEPENDENT. That means each weapon has a different damage die.  You know, like in d20...
In playtesting, I used standard D&D/d20 values.  


[/quote]
I tend to prefer a one die size approach. D6s have the benefit of being something you can get your hands on by eviscerating a couple board games (monopoly, yahtzee, etc.) D10s have the advantage of being excellent for random tables.

D20s, 12s, 8s, and 4s are a little lame. and D3s are teh NEVER.

But that's just preference I guess.

I also prefer the weapons-as-skills approach. Especially in lieu of BaB. The binary proficient/non is kind of pointless. And the weapon as skill approach also makes improvised weapons pretty fun.
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I don't believe in it anyway.
What?
England.
Just a conspiracy of cartographers, then?

CYMRO

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« Reply #28 on: October 21, 2006, 02:04:28 AM »
Quote
Um any or all of it. I don't use percentile systems. "Roll under your ability score" is fine and dandy, but what about the difficulty of the task. In dicepools, it's number of successes. This reads something like "I want to jump to the moon." "Okay. Just roll under your ability." I see where competence factors in, but where does difficulty enter into the equation?


Where did you see roll under your ability score?
Read the combat section, but first notice the "more to come" in that post above.
In no way did I say what I was posting was complete and ready for mass consumption.  I just began posting a few basics.

Quote

I know target numbers are going to have diferrent values. My point is that that is one bigass chart! And the score looks like it goes unused, while the modifier is the big deal... At least, I personally don't see how you'd roll under -7 on a % roll.


Big ass chart? It has two fucking columns!  If you would just bother to read beyond the "big-assed chart, you will see.  You don't roll a -7 on a d%.  That is your MODIFIER!
As in that is the NUMBER that MODIFIES your d% ROLL.  A complete newbie at gaming was able to get this on the first go.  How can someone who is claiming to be on the "design side" of gaming not grasping the concept.


Quote
except that it's got a shitty name and is an entire ability score that doesn't get used outside of combat. I don't see anything wrong with a unified targeting ability so long as it's balanced. But "accuracy?" WTF? I thought we were past this on page 6!


It is a great name, as it describes what it does.  Like Strength.

Quote
last time I checked D20 didn't run on percentile rolls.

No, but how skills work is part of d20.  And d20 DCs are ridiculously easy to convert tp percentiles.

Quote
Also, new players aren't going to be familiar with old games.

Never said they were.  This is a discussion(I thought) between veteran gamers using terminology normally associated with gaming.  Have you played d20?  Then you should no what skills do.

Quote
I tend to prefer a one die size approach. D6s have the benefit of being something you can get your hands on by eviscerating a couple board games (monopoly, yahtzee, etc.) D10s have the advantage of being excellent for random tables.

D20s, 12s, 8s, and 4s are a little lame. and D3s are teh NEVER.

But that's just preference I guess.

I also prefer the weapons-as-skills approach. Especially in lieu of BaB. The binary proficient/non is kind of pointless. And the weapon as skill approach also makes improvised weapons pretty fun.


One die approach to weapon damage is lacking in oomph.  It does not allow for subtle enough variety in damage
Weapon group proficiencies, if you had read that far, are in place of BAB.


beejazz

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« Reply #29 on: October 21, 2006, 02:12:15 AM »
So... lemme get this straight.
d%. +modifier. roll to hit difficulty.
The chart is LOOOOOOOOOOOOONG. You'd be better off just saying that your modifier is your ability minus seven.
And your weapons run on proficient/non. Not remotely like BAB. There is either "good" or "bad" with a sword. You are either "trained" or "untrained"... there is never a "better trained."
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I don't believe in it anyway.
What?
England.
Just a conspiracy of cartographers, then?